Opponents On-air discussion – LSB Show

WPFW LSB Show Transcript

January 31, 2020

 

Lucy Murphy [Singing]: 

Somebody’s hurtin’ Pacifica 

And it’s gone on far too long

Yes it’s gone on far too long

Yes it’s gone on far too long.

 

Somebody’s hurtin’ Pacifica 

And it’s gone on far too long

And we won’t be silent any more 

No we won’t be silent any more.

[Recorded Song:]

Stand, in the end, you’ll still be you
One that’s done all the things you set out to do
Stand, there’s a cross for you to bear
Things to go through if you’re goin’ anywhere

Stand for the things you know are right
It’s the truth that the truth makes them so uptight
Stand, all the things you want are real
You have you to complete and there is no deal

Stand, stand, stand
(Everybody, yeah)
Stand, stand, stand

Stand, you’ve been sitting much too long
There’s a permanent crease in your right and wrong
Stand, there’s a midget standing tall
And a giant beside him about to fall

Stand, stand, stand
Stand, stand, stand

Stand, they will try to make you crawl
And they know what you’re sayin’makes sense at all
Stand, don’t you know that you are free
Well, at least in your mind if you want to be

Everybody

Stand, stand

Stand
Na na na na na na na na na na
Stand
Na na na na na na na na na na

Stand
Na na na na na na na na na na
Stand
Na na na na na na na na na na

Stand
Na na na na na na na na na na

 

Source: Musixmatch

Stand! lyrics © Mijac Music

Performed by Sly and the Family Stone

 

Ron Pinchback: Good morning, ladies and gentlemen.  Good morning. Good morning, all you WPFW listeners out there. Today welcome to… and ‘BAI, thank you very much! And… because this is a special broadcast today, this is the special edition of the WPFW LSB Show, which we do every 4th Friday of the month, and today we have some issues that we have to discuss with our listening public, okay?  And in the coming weeks WPFW listener members will be receiving referendum ballots to vote on bylaws changes. This window is very very short in terms of time. Those ballots are scheduled to go out in approximately two weeks and from that point we have about 30 days, we have 30 days to complete this referendum. And, the issue of the the bylaws is very complicated.  

 

These changes that are being proposed have come about as a result of lawsuits and such, and this morning we are going to share as much information as we can about this whole situation so that you the listener, and you the staff out there, you know, we’ll get a better understanding of what’s taking place, and what’s not taking place.  So it’s very important that you listen, and later in the show we will be opening up our phone lines to get your thoughts about these things.  And it’s a two-hour special. So, once again, we’re going to be talking to folks in New York from WBAI, folks from L.A. (KPFK and KPFA), and of course our own home-grown crowd right here.  

 

Joining me in the studio is Eileen Rosen.  Eileen Rosen, she’s a member of the LSB and also on our PNB.  Joining us by phone is Nancy Sorden, also a member of the Local Station Board, also a member of the Pacifica National Board.  And we will be talking with Grace Aaron, Mimi Rosenberg, Arthur Schwartz, Lydia Brazon – all these folks are connected with this effort or have information about this effort.  And so we’re going to open up our lines because we want to give you as much credible information as possible, dispel the rumors, dispel the myths, “the good, the bad, the ugly” as they say, about these bylaws changes. And joining us… you know, we’re going to have three… excuse me, we’re going to have six segments.  We’re going to have, the first segment is “History and Consequences.” How did all this come about? Okay? Second segment will deal with the “Legal Requirements,” you know, and process as it relates to this referendum. We have Pacifica’s response to this and its responsibilities, and we’re also going to have the LSB/PNB response, because PNBs, excuse me, the LSBs throughout the network have made statements about this situation and we’re going to share those with you.  

 

And then at the second hour we’re going to recap and remind folks of what we had discussed, and also we’re going to have Reverend Graylan Hagler among some other guests that’ll be coming in, because we want to get community and staff response, you know — our programmers here at WPFW, both public affairs and music, and as well as people from the community, you know, like yourselves.  And we’ll be taking calls and comments during that time. So, that’s what we’ve got in store for you this morning and so we’re going to get right to it. Nancy, are you there?

 

Nancy: I’m here.

 

Ron P: Very good, Nancy.  Okay. All right, so… Okay, now, don’t forget, mute your phones, folks, if you’re not talking, so we don’t want to hear “bells and whistles.” But, so, the first segment: “History and Consequences.” I’ve invited Grace Aaron.  Grace Aaron, good morning.

 

Grace Aaaron: Hello. I’m here. 

 

Ron P: Yes. Good morning.

 

Grace Aaaron: Good morning. 

 

Ron P: Mimi Rosenberg…

 

Mimi Rosenberg: Good morning to all of you.

 

Ron P: And Arthur Schwartz.  Arthur? Arthur, we can’t hear you. Okay, that’s fine. Okay, Grace, I’m going to ask you to introduce yourself to the listeners who might not be familiar with you, and I want you to do the same thing Mimi; and then we’re going to talk about the history and possible consequences of these bylaws changes.  Grace, let’s start with you.

 

Grace Aaron: Yes.  My name is Grace Aaron and I’m a member of KPFK in Los Angeles. I’m also on the National Board of Pacifica.  In the past I was the interim Executive Director of Pacifica and the Chair of the board in 2009 for about ten months, and again for about three weeks in July of this year.  So, I have a long history with Pacifica. I’ve been on the board, on and off, for many years.

 

Ron P: Very good. Mimi?

 

Mimi Rosenberg: I’ve been with, as a listener and a broadcaster, with Pacifica (WBAI) since the 1960s, where I was recruited, as most of our broadcasters were, from the community of activists, to help really act as a megaphone for the people’s voices.  I’ve similarly been a member of what used to be the local Advisory Board and fortunately was morphed into local station boards, which are now in jeopardy – a much more democratic forum for the people. And I have continued to survive and work for the democracy of Pacifica, for WBAI, and to keep it.  To keep it as a community-controlled vehicle for the voices of we, the people who were generally marginalized and disenfranchised from other forms of media.

 

Ron P:  “We, the people.” Okay Grace, let’s go over this history. Because this didn’t happen last week, you know, this didn’t happen last month.  This has been an ongoing debate, issue, or whatever you want to call it, for some time. Give us a brief history of this case. 

 

Grace A: Of this particular case?

 

Ron P:  Yes.

 

Grace A:  I’d like to go back a little bit further.

 

Ron P:  Sure, go ahead.

 

Grace A:  Since the 1940s, Pacifica radio stations… We have five radio stations across the country: your radio station, WPFW in DC; WBAI in New York City; KPFK in Los Angeles (which is my station); KPFA in Berkeley; and KPFT in Houston.  We also have 250 affiliated stations that carry at least some of our programs that they can get over a something called the Audioport. At any rate, throughout the history of Pacifica at the fire station there has been some degree of democratization. In other words, there’s always been community input to the management and to the boards of directors.  And more recently, about the year 2002/2003, a set of bylaws with instituted to increase the democratic participation at all of our radio stations. So, at that time, there was a struggle at that time against democratization, so I’d like to read you a little quote from February 24th, 1999.  Noam, Professor Noam Chomsky, Ed Herman and Howard Zinn sent a letter to the Pacifica Board Chair stating, and I’ll quote, “Apparent trends towards increased centralization of power and decision-making are bringing Pacifica closer to a corporate model.”  Further they urged the board to “make a firm commitment to democratic forms of governance and participation,” and that was just before these new bylaws that are our current bylaws were instituted.  

 

So we have a great deal of democratization in our network.  We have local station boards, which have a significant amount of input into the management of our stations, and we have a national board that’s elected by the five Local Station Boards of our stations.  Now, there is an effort now to have a completely new set of bylaws which would eliminate most of that democratization and push us more toward a corporate model. So that’s what we’re fighting at the moment. 

 

Ron P: All right.  Very good. Very good.  Mimi, would you like to add anything to that?

 

Mimi R: Well, I just want to put the kind of human face on it.  And what the history has been despite the way the general in New York, Lou Schweitzer, Lew Hill, I mean they ceded these stations to us to be held in trust for, yes, we the people – to have a progressive voice and a voice that was otherwise erased or eclipse from mass media.  And I think that’s the most important history and that’s what we have to hold on.  

 

But this isn’t about hierarchy or centralism.  This is a group of stations that have fought against racism, they’ve fought for inclusion, they’ve fought for diversity, and they’ve fought for the democracy and representation of the people by the people, by the people — not to be controlled by a hierarchy or an intelligentsia, but by the people, and that is the most significant issue.  And then just finally, in around 2019, when there began to be great upheaval, because indeed there were advisory structures that were taken over by people with a kind of corporatist mentality and who indeed believed in the rule of the intelligentsia, which is not what I conceive of as democracy — they put the stations and the stations’ assets, the very licenses, in jeopardy.  And it led to true struggles for several years, and it led to a series of lowsuits which finally ushered in, in around 2003, a current set of bylaws that are infinitely more democratic and take us from an advisory structure to a local station board structure with empowerment, with decision-making. And when I say took “us,” who is the “us?” It is the people. It is the people who the station was created for – stations; and it was the people who finance it, who have the biggest stake, who are the listeners, who are the movers and shakers in their community, politically and culturally – that’s who the stations were created for, that’s who sustains the stations, and the staff — most of whom is not separate from the community, but part of the community and who radiate peoples’ voices outwards, so that the staff, the listener-subscribers: that’s what democracy looks like, that’s what we ushered in, empowering them to make the policies and practices of our precious resource, these wonderful, wonderful stations that are unique in the history of this country and I daresay the world.  

 

So, I want to say that our history is about fighting and implementing democracy; and the current bylaws, while they are messy and always should be re-evaluated and tweaked accordingly, they empower the people.  And democracy, after all, is about empowering the people, regardless of its warts, its messiness. It is about incorporation in decision-making and community control, so I think that’s the history that we’re at now and what is in grave jeopardy. 

 

Ron P: Considering the mission of Lew Hill, the original concept, the original mission of the network, of the creator of the network Lew Hill — how does this, how does this square with those objectives?

 

Grace A: I’d like to speak to that. I think that it turns Lew Hill’s Ideas upside down. Lew Hill’s concept is that the listeners will support our stations and that these stations would be responsive to the membership and listenership, and instead this is an attempt to have the listeners subjugated to an elite group of people who will control the whole network.  And the same, some of the people who are proposing these new bylaws changes — it’s actually a complete rewrite of the bylaws, it’s not just some minor changes — some of the people involved with that actually shut down WBAI, our station in New York, without informing most of the board of directors. This is a completely illegal action. I as a national board member didn’t even know about the plans for the shutdown or the shutdown itself until after it happened, so this is the kind of mentality of “well, we know best for you; you are not able as people, normal people — listeners and members are not capable, we have to have professionals do this.” And so what professionals led to is almost the complete loss of our New York radio station, and we had to fight to get it back.  That was effective.  

 

I have to very much thank Arthur Schwartz for taking on, as a lawyer in a pro bono way, challenging the takeover of WBAI.  And also the rest of us fighting to save that station. And that has been… WBAI is now back on the air, but the people supporting these bylaws changes — some of them, at least, also supported shutting down WBAI and piping in, just piping in other programs from Berkeley, California.  Well you know that that’s not going to work in a community radio station that’s responsive to the New York community, to have programming from a different signal area. Completely, it was a complete flop. Anyway, that’s what we have to look at. 

 

Ron P: That’s one of the, and that’s one of the components of the new bylaws proposal. And joining us by phone also is Arthur Schwartz, the network attorney who’s once again leading the Pacifica — what’s the word? — challenge, you know, to these bylaws changes.  

 

Good morning, Arthur.  Welcome to the airwaves, WPFW, ‘BAI. 

 

Arthur Schwartz: Good morning.  It’s nice to be on in another city. 

 

Ron P: Okay.  Now Arthur, let’s talk about the legal requirements, restrictions, and the process by which this referendum is going to take place.  And just so our listeners understand what Grace and Mimi were just talking about in terms of reduction, of eliminating the LSBs. The new proposal would do just that.  And Alex, excuse me, and Alex, welcome by the way, I hear you back there, you’ll be on momentarily. 

 

Alex Steinberg: Okay, thank you.

 

Ron P: Talk about the, what the new bylaws will effectively do, you know, not hyperbole, not what they may do but what they will do. 

 

Arthur Schwartz: What they will do is basically turn Pacifica into much more of what I would call a traditional foundation.  They would take it… Pacifica is pretty unique and I’d have to say I really didn’t have an appreciation of it until, even though I produced the show for a couple of years — I didn’t have an appreciation of it until WBAI went off the air, but I’ve spent forty years being a lawyer for unions and for people, dissidents and reformers trying to take on union leadership, and unions do have a fundamental structure that their members elect the leadership and their members contain, you know, the direction that the that union is going in, and there’s no permanent leadership in the union, at least if it’s democratic. And I didn’t really totally understand until WBAI went off the air that Pacifica is actually structured in a similar way.  

 

That, the notion that members could vote to elect leaders of foundations is very unusual.  I represent a number of foundations and the boards are generally, they call them self-perpetuating. Somebody creates the foundation in the beginning and then there’s an initial board and even though they may have members, like the ACLU has members or Planned Parenthood as members, members don’t vote on anything.  They’re just members, like, but they don’t vote. They don’t choose the leadership. And so the fights that go on over the direction of the organization and who’s going to lead the organization are really decided by a small group of people, which sometimes can result in some pretty bad decisions that get made by the organization and they may not reflect the listenership.  

 

The concept that seemed to exist in Pacifica and so is reflected in the bylaws – the new bylaws do not carry on. In the end, it’s not only that the local leadership, the station leadership is elected, and that group elects the national leadership. Programming is supposed to reflect the demographics and the political and social makeup of the listenership area and the decision on what that’s supposed to be is really a local decision, and it’s a local decision that’s made by people elected locally, or its a local decision made by the Local Station Board and the General Manager working together, which was one of the key points of the case we made — why they couldn’t just take WBAI off the air.  And it also, the democratic structure also meant that the Executive Director, who did take WBAI off the air, couldn’t do it, what he did, because there was a democratically elected board which was not a rubber stamp for what he did. And in the end that board kept voting repeatedly to put WBAI back on the air, and the court said that’s who runs Pacifica, not the Executive Director. And the Executive Director reports to them, and so it’s a democratic structure that, you know, the new bylaws — you would have five people elected to the national board, one for each station, but then you would have six people who are self perpetuating, and that basically turns Pacifica into what I would call a more traditional foundation which is not going to be run by its members.

 

Ron P: Just to emphasize that point about the five Station Representatives: under this new bylaws proposal each station would get to elect one representative, one, and that’s it.  You know, the Local Station Boards and such would be, you know, completely eliminated. The other part of this proposal is that it would create a six member (and this is what Arthur, Mr. Schwartz is talking about right now) it would create a six-member board of advisors, at-large board advisors who are essentially hand-picked and not subject to vote — they won’t be selected by the membership.  So, it’s very important that people understand that instead of having twenty-two representatives on your board you would now have one. And because of the diversity of this network and this station it would be, you know, I would imagine it would be very difficult for one individual to represent the needs of everybody in this community; but that’s the way the bylaws proposal is written.  

 

Joining us also is Alex Steinberg.  Alex, are you there?

 

Alex S: Yes.  I’m here.

 

Ron P: Alex, would you like to elaborate on that because I think people need to understand, you know, just how — what’s the word? — how much, how much democracy would be challenged, you know, in an environment like that.

 

Alex S: I would say there is really very little democracy in the proposed bylaws.  You have kind of the shell of democracy in that there are still some votes that take place, but essentially the six at-large appointed directors will be the people in charge of the foundation, and they will be able to name their own successors for ever and ever.  Not only that, but local input into such things as advising what programs should be on the air, review of management and things like that, will be gone. The local boards will be dissolved and they will be replaced by the kind of rubber stamp local boards that are now common at NPR stations.  So I think it’s not only the immediate issue of these bylaws taking away our right to have a say in the direction of our radio station, but in a broader political context it’s part and parcel of a move to eviscerate community broadcasting — any kind of local voices. This is happening throughout the industry, more and more local stations are being shut down or being de-funded or turned into what we call repeater stations.  And that’s, and as a matter of fact that’s exactly what was tried initially on WBAI when the former Executive Director John Vernille, without the approval or even the knowledge of the national board, came in and shut down ‘BAI and turned it into a repeater station. It had no local staff whatsoever and all we were was an echo of programming that was being piped in from California, which had no relevant to the audience in New York.

 

Now I’ve been involved in Pacifica governance, I was actually on the first local station board after our new democratic bylaws were created in 2003, and I’ve been on and off the local board ever since.  I’ve probably, I don’t know how many years, but probably at least ten years on and off, and I’ve been on the national board, and I’m currently the pro-tem chair of the Pacifica National Board. And I can tell you that I have never, ever, seen a threat to our continued existence such as these proposed new bylaws.

 

Ron P: Well let’s, let’s.  Okay, so I guess people listening right now are asking, why did this proposal come to fruition?  I mean, why do it in the first place? What’s the, what’s the benefit to the network? Is it saving money?  Is it making things more efficient? Is it making things more flexible in term of being able to make decisions about the fate of certain stations? Arthur, what is that?  I mean, what is the benefit there?

 

Arthur Schwartz: I think, I mean the basic theme, and I’ve done some back and forth with some of these folks on the other side, is that democracy is messy.  Democracy works slowly. Democracy is not as efficient as bureaucracy, sometimes. So they’re basically saying that the board is too contentious because they’re elected, and if we have a professional board they’ll work together to resolve Pacifica’s financial problems.  And they were, I mean in the brief that their lawyer filed in court they derided the WBAI decision by the judge as just like being so detrimental to the existence of the network, and that, because they would like a structure where they could just do whatever they want to do and they’ll say “We’re doing it in the interests of the Foundation,” and all we have is, instead of being answerable to a membership vote they’re only answerable to a suit for breach of fiduciary duty, which is a very, often a very hard standard to achieve.  So, that’s their reasoning. Like, you know, Pacifica — and I have to say this — Pacifica has like, raises 12, 13 million dollars a year. It’s astounding. It’s one, it’s actually one of the foundations that, one of the… In left foundations I would say it, it raises more money than many, many, many, many other ones. But it spends a little bit more than it raises, and that’s caused problems. And, but that’s been true, when I look back, it’s been true for like fifty years, and it’s always a recurring issue. “Pacifica needs more money, Pacifica is low on cash.” Because the model is raising it a hundred percent from the listeners.  And these people say, “Well, we can run Pacifica more efficiently if we can have a small group of people who, professionals who will run the foundation — and that’s really, that’s really their entire premise.

 

Ron P: And, I’d like to add this. One thing that’s being overlooked is that this network has survived all these years, you know, with the democratic model.  So, I mean, yes it’s like you say, it’s messy, it’s flawed, you know, it’s just like any other, you know, governing situation. 

 

Eileen? 

 

Eileen Rosen: Yeah, I did want to add one thing in terms of the rationale for presenting this proposal. There’s no question that our bylaws are complex, complicated, possibly indecipherable in some cases, and they need work; but we are throwing out, or not “we,” this new proposal is kind of throwing out the baby with the bathwater.  We need to work on the bylaws one by one, make them fit together so they can work for the benefit of the network, but that doesn’t mean that you should come in with a whole new set — a revision, not bylaws amendments, but what they’ve brought us is bylaws revision that totally changes the structure of Pacifica and, you know, as mentioned earlier, one of the things that really got to people was it was not brought to the Board.  It was kind of, you know, just snuck in behind doors and all of a sudden we found out this was happening. Yes, Pacifica needs some help in moving forward and improving all its processes because like it or not, any organization needs some bureaucratic processes to run efficiently, effectively and to make decisions; and some of those decisions are hard to make. There are tradeoffs, do we spend on this or do we do that? But throwing out the whole thing is not the way to go.  Thanks.

 

Ron P: All right.

 

Mimi R: Ron, might I add something?  This is Mimi. 

 

Ron P: Yes, go ahead, Mimi.

 

Mimi R: Hi. Thank you, and thank you for doing all this, and all the splendid input of my colleagues from throughout the nation, yes, throughout the nation, who are adding to this discussion; but I almost think of it as the Rudyard Kipling School of understanding what democracy looks like.  It’s an inherently kind of chauvinistic and invariably a racist look at things that are exclusionary. It sets up, and I think we have to understand that, again an alleged intelligentsia who think, who thinks that they have the right to supplant their understanding of life and functioning with the masses — that we don’t have the capability.  We are the unwashed masses, and I do have to remind people that it was decades that this station and certainly WBAI fought like Hell to effectuate the gorgeous mosaic of New York into the leadership of the station, onto the local station boards, etc. And that’s totally ignored. The issue of diversity, the conceptualization that one person can represent different nationalities, different racial groupings, that they can represent women, that they can represent people from the LGBTQIA community, is such an affront to a progressive notion of democracy.  And so I think this is a fight for progressive movements, and the way they operate, and the way they understand things, and against the issue of hierarchy, and against elitism.  

 

And I just want to finally add that one of the problems with Pacifica which they seek to make generally the Washington and New York stations the stalking horse for.  We are not the cause of financial problems, the albatross around the neck of Pacifica. There is a broader problem of how to finance media, progressive media mechanisms within the most expensive media markets in the country: California, Houston, Washington, New York.  And so, to make us in effect the scapegoats and dismantle a democratic structure rather than tackling to a meaningful summit, how do we begin to accommodate ourselves to the nature of the times and the finances that are required to build a, and continue and sustain our media network?  So, I also think that it is imperative to understand that part of the motivation is to look at particularly ‘BAI as a way. It’s not an albatross, but to look at it as the Golden Goose, i.e. to consider selling off our strategic location in the commercial media, which is the centrality of our positioning on the New York station 99.5 FM, and if that was sold off that could earn upwards of ten, fifteen, twenty, fifty, a hundred million dollars, which I think there are many people who would distribute amongst other stations, particularly the California stations, and that has to be reckoned with and recognized.  So, part of the motivation, I think, is for survival rather than looking at the entire confluence of circumstances that weaken our ability to raise funds at this juncture and how we are going to progress together to do so, and to do so better, and to use WBAI and very likely the Washington station as a way of shoring up the flagging economics and finances of the other stations. So, I think the motivation is also much more opportunistic than would appear.

 

Ron P:  Okay. And one thing that’s for certain…  

 

Alex S: Ron, 

 

Ron P:   Yeah, go ahead Alex.

 

Alex S: I think that’s the elephant in the room that Mimi just identified. One of the provisions in the new proposed bylaws would make it much, much easier to sell a signal. Currently the membership has to vote on any kind of sale or swap of a signal, and it requires 10% of the membership to reach a quorum.  The new bylaws would reduce that to only 5%. A well-organized minority could probably get 5% of the membership to vote in a certain direction. So, I think at the bottom there is, there is a an intimate connection between the forces that came in on October Seventh and shut down WBAI and those that wish to impose this new set of bylaws on us.  And I don’t think it’s a coincidence that the lawsuit that began this process of trying to impose this new set of bylaws on us was launched on the same day as WBAI was shut down – October Seventh. So that’s the elephant in the room. 

 

Ron P: Okay, Alex. Thank you very, very much. 

 

Ron P: Okay.  Listen folks, we’re going to take a quick break.  You’re tuned to 89.3 FM and WBAI New York. And today as a special LSB program from the, WPFW’s LSB, and I want to thank the LSB members for making this time, you know, possible, and of course our program director, Katea Stitt, for allowing this time to be extended.  We’re going to take a quick break and then when we come back, Alex, I’d like you to share your thoughts about the editorials that we are getting ready to play, because it is important that people understand the context. And then we’re going to take a break and then come back.  Yes, and don’t forget, to all of our listeners both WPFW and at WBAI, good morning. Okay, so stand by and we will be, we’ll be back with more, because Lydia Brazon is going to be joining us — she’s interim Director of the Pacifica Network, and Arthur’s going to stay with us because, once again, there are some restrictions and process issues related to this referendum that you need to know about.  So, stay with us. We’ll be back in a moment.

 

Alex (pre-produced): Pacifica radio has been compelled under California court order to consider amendments to its bylaws.  Now, these by laws protect the democratic governance system key to our mission of promoting peace and justice through our broadcasts.  The court order was initiated by Pacifica National Board members Donald Goldmacher from KPFA, Mansoor Sabbagh from KPFK, and Bill Crosier from KPFT.  Crosier was one of the board members who came and closed down WBAI on October 7th.  However, in the opinion of a large majority of the Pacifica National Board, the proposed bylaws amendments are destructive, a slap in the face at all the activists who struggled for years to create a democratic governance structure for Pacifica.  It would do away with our Local Station Boards and replace them with the rubber stamp advisory boards that now dominate NPR stations. It would put Pacifica under the absolute control of six transitional directors appointed by those who filed the lawsuit.  They would even have final say over all Pacifica broadcasts, including over WBAI. I’m Alex Steinberg, Pro-tem Chair of the Pacifica National Board and member of WBAI’s Local Station Board. I urge all delegates and members to study these bylaws carefully and vote your conscience. 

 

Lucy Murphy [Singing]: 

Somebody’s hurtin’ Pacifica 

And it’s gone on far too long

Yes it’s gone on far too long

Yes it’s gone on far too long.

 

Somebody’s hurtin’ Pacifica 

And it’s gone on far too long

And we won’t be silent any more 

No we won’t be silent any more

No we won’t be silent any more.

 

Ron P: All right.  Lucy Murphy and a proud member of the WPFW family.  Been with us forever, and thank you Lucy for that very creative statement about, about process and democracy and how important it is to our listenership.  Okay. We’re going to be, once again, Arthur’s staying with us. Mimi’s going to be back with us, you know, for the second hour.  

Arthur, I’d like to once again introduce Lydia Brazon.  Brazon, Ms. Brazon is the interim Executive Director of the Pacifica Network.  And, I’d like for her to share with all of our listeners out there, East Coast, West Coast, what Pacifica’s response is to this, because there are things that Pacifica has to do as it relates to this referendum.  Good morning, Lydia, and welcome to the program.

 

Lydia Brazon: Good morning.

 

Ron P: Yes, Lydia, could you kind of outline, you know, what Pacifica will have to do.  The process which this referendum is being organized, how it’s going to be accountable and such, the process by which this is happening?  And once again about what Pacifica is required to do in this process.

 

Lydia: Well, of course, the first and perhaps one of the most important things is to have a qualified elections supervisor, and I think that we have that. Fortunately she’s experienced and we had just gone through our delegate elections just a few months ago.  So, fortunately we were able to jump right in. I mean, some initial delays for other reasons that have been probably mentioned before hand, but the most important thing is the vetting of the lists, so we’re asking for updated lists from the General Managers.  And, even though this comes at the time that they are the busiest, with fund drives having been pre-scheduled, making every effort to have the most accurate of lists. I know my personal experience was when there was a little SNAFU with my ballot for the last election, I was able to get very prompt response from this same elections supervisor.  So if there’s anyone out there and you haven’t gotten about it when you hear the announcements, immediately contact our Elections Supervisor. We have also had, of course, the requisite on-air carts, and we will be having more and more information on our websites that will give more detailed information. This is the first time that we’ve ever had to do, conduct a membership election, so we’ve had to tweak what we normally do for the individual candidates.  And the staff elections – it’s two classes of membership so therefore the staff lists, and the staff lists include all the volunteers that Pacifica has elected to call Unpaid Staff, and so that is why we have an enormous effort before us; but that we believe our, the Elections Supervisor is up to the task.

 

Ron P: Very good. And those ballots, when are they scheduled to go out?

 

Lydia B: They’re… let’s see.  Oh, that wasn’t gone over?  Wait, let me get my timetable.  It’s very soon, I think it’s by February 14th?

 

Arthur Schwartz: February 18th.

 

Lydia B: Eighteenth.

 

Ron P: Yeah, because it changed recently.

 

Lydia B: Yes. So, So, anyway, so all you have to do, like the membership simply has to be very responsive — look in your mailbox if you’re going to get a postcard.  If you had elected for a paper ballot those will be generated, if you did that for the last election and are still a member. The membership dates change because we have the date of record and that’s what we’re going by.  So, so it’s a challenge. We all kind of have to listen very carefully. Stay tuned to your station because that’s where, stay tuned to WPFW because that’s where a lot, a lot of these announcements are going to be made into your website.  That’s really important.

 

Ron P: Very good.  Very good. And is there anything else you’d like to add in terms of Pacifica’s response?

 

Lydia: Well, yes.  I mean, I think, and I’m the interim Executive Director right now, but as many people know I have been involved in Pacifica governance for many, many, many years, and I was here when the current bylaws were passed, and the only striking difference to me (and i’m not opining on which way people should vote), but for the initial bylaws that we are governed by at this point, flawed though many of us consider them to be, but at that time we had basically what was like a number of bylaws conventions, right? 

 

Ron P: Yeah.  I remember those.   Yeah.  

 

Lydia: And even after they were passed, yeah, and even after they were passed, the Board and the listeners often invoked the need to have another bylaws convention to fix all these things, right, that we thought had been overlooked.  But that aside is that, I know in L.A. we all came together and we had our own plan of bylaws. Yeah, we met at a law school, we had huge audiences, everybody participated. And then we met at the National Board. We all stood in line to give our comments at the microphone, on air.  And so it was a huge, collective, nation-wide process. And I think that that is what to me was most surprising and somewhat alarming, was the lack of, of a process that, that invited all of the stakeholders, which are primarily our listeners, they keep us on the air, and our staff and our volunteers.  So, so I think that’s what’s lacking in this process; but again, you know, we just urge everyone to become as knowledgeable as possible and I hope that even though we have a very short time, that we talk to each other and that we listen to each other and hear what’s at stake. And as I said, that was the only major difference that I saw — the biggest one besides the specifics in the plan. 

 

Ron P: All right. Lydia Brazon, thank you so much. She’s interim Director of the Pacifica Radio Network, and as they say in Klingon, “Qapla!” (Much success!)  

 

Lydia: Okay, thanks.

 

Ron P: Thank you very much.  Okay, we’re going to talk with some other folks because, you know, the WPFW LSB and the PNB has also responded to this challenge.  And over next several minutes we’re going to be talking with members of the WPFW LSB and LSBs from around the network about what their response has been, you know, and why, of course.  So, I want you folks to listen in on this because it’s very important that you understand that this is an attempt, this, these bylaws would eliminate the LSBs throughout the network, all five stations.  And so, it’s interesting to know how the LSBs responded to that. And so that’s what we’re going to talk about right now, and I’d like to welcome once again Grace Aaron. Are you still there?

 

Grace: Yeah, I’m here.

 

Ron P: Very good.  Okay, we also have Eileen Rosen, a member of the WPFW LSB, Nancy Sorden, a member of the WPFW LSB.  We have Lawrence Reyes, a member of the KPFK LSB. And, you know… Alex, let’s start with, excuse me, we’re going to, yeah, we’re going to start with Nancy, because I’d like for her to tell our listeners what the WPFW LSB, how the W LSB has responded, you know, to this challenge.  Good morning, Nancy.

 

Nancy Sorden: Good morning. Hi!  Yes, well, although the, you know, the presentation of these bylaw amendments by the petitioners was kind of stealth, the LSD members were able to understand what the changes, the actual changes that are in there meant, and they voted unanimously against this bylaw, proposed bylaw amendments petition, which is actually, as other people have said, is a revision — it doesn’t identify one by one all the changes, and in actuality what they sent out to get people to buy into it was some, was not all the changes although it said these are the changes from the old and the new, it actually doesn’t describe the change in quorum in their, in their materials and a lot of other materials.  And so the board, the LSB recognized, and I hope other people will recognize, that, you know, to actually look at the bylaws, the old and the new, and see the differences — because they are not identified in the materials that were put out by the petitioners. And people will be receiving those materials that make, that make the changes look really great, and I just want people to understand that all the changes — like the one that will affect it being much easier to sell a station — are not, are not identified. The other thing that’s not, you know, pointed out, is that it’s going to be a lot easier for a small group of people to elect people at each station, because the elections will rotate between the stations and, and so you only have to have your membership at a station for one year, so all the members from one, one station will, will be able to participate in the election of our station.  All the members from, you know, all the people from all the other stations will be able to participate in the election at our station, so we’ll be having people from outside of our listening area electing our representative. And that’s not evident in the materials that were sent out. But that’s, those are just two examples of the changes that were not, that are not evident when you look at the materials, the, it’s like propaganda, that were sent out with the proposed

 

Ron P: bylaws changes.

 

Nancy Sorden:  bylaw changes. 

 

Ron P: Nancy, thank you very much.  Eileen?

 

Eileen Rosen: Nancy, I’m going to follow up on what you were just talking about. I tried to do a side-by-side comparison of the two sets of bylaws by using the Word “track changes and compare documents” and it just didn’t work.  You know, there were entire chunks that just didn’t appear in one that were in the other and vice versa. So, that’s why we want to distinguish between the fact that this is not, these are not bylaws amendments. It’s an entire bylaws revision, and I believe that that requires a different process.  For the bylaws amendments, to keep it short, there’s actually a very well-defined process that Pacifica has to go through for bylaws amendments after we get that, what was it, 5% of the membership saying “Yeah, go ahead and start a process.” 

 

Nancy Sorden:  One per cent.

 

Eileen Rosen: Oh it’s only 1%. Okay, thank you.  Then the proposed by new bylaws need to be voted up or down by the National Board.  If the national board approves them, then they are to be sent to the LSBs of the 5 stations, I don’t think they go to the affiliates. 

 

Ron P: Actually it was, that voting order there was kind of reversed because of the situation that that PNB vote had to be taken.  We had to…

 

Nancy:  The court reversed the order. 

 

Ron P: Right, exactly.

 

Eileen Rosen: Oh–

 

Ron P: So, we had to, the PNB had to vote against it so that we could make sure that the LSBs would see it.

 

Eileen: No, the PNB had to vote for it.

 

Ron P: Yes, I’m sorry.  For it, that’s right.

 

Eileen: So, yeah, we found ourselves in kind of a funny situation.  Even though most of us did not agree with this new set of bylaws, we voted them up, in other words we were in favor of them, expressly so they would make it to the LSBs; because if the PNB had voted them down, then they would have gone directly to the membership without the LSBs, as you know elected boards, local boards from the communities — they wouldn’t have had a chance to look at them and debate them and see what this was all about.  It would have just gone out blasting to the membership. I’m happy to say that, at ‘PFW at least, we voted unanimously on our Local Station Board to reject this packet of new bylaws. 

 

Nancy: Right.  And one of the reasons was, you know, why would we vote for something when we don’t know all the changes in it?  You know, all the changes have not been identified.  Why would we want to vote for something like that without having to, you know, have a chance to look at it more closely and, you know…  I mean, everybody, I think agrees that the bylaws need some changes. It’s not that we don’t want changes, which some people might, you know, the petitioners might say that we just want to go on; but we, we actually have been looking at bylaw changes over the last several years and, you know, it’s just that we haven’t gotten to a point yet where, you know, we need something like a convention that that was talked about. But, you know, that’s one of the, one of the issues is the way that these were presented in such a stealth manner.  Why would–

 

Ron P: Nancy, we’ve got to take a break.  It’s the top of the hour. We’ll be back momentarily… 

 

Announcer (Katea Stitt): You’re in tune to WPFW in Washington at 89.3 FM and streaming at wpfw.org; and WBAI in New York at 99.5 and streaming at wbai.org.

 

Ron P: Thank you very much, Katea.  Okay, Nancy, thank you for that.  Sorry we had to interrupt you. We also want to bring in Lawrence Reyes.  Lawrence Reyes is an LSB representative from KPFK out in California. Good morning, Lawrence.

 

Lawrence Reyes: Good morning.  Good morning, everyone.  Good morning family. 

 

Ron P: Exactly, family, I like that.  Lawrence, tell us your, the LSB’s response, because if I’m not mistaken, in fact all five stations now, all five stations have, the LSBs have rejected these bylaws.  Could you elaborate on that for us?

 

Lawrence: Sure. So, yeah.  It’s, it’s obviously an attempt to usurp the current process.  Our LSB voted 14 to 3, with one of the petitioners being part of our LSB, was one of the yes votes.  This is, this is what really concerns me — is being able to get the information out to our listeners.  I think it has to be both pro and con, but we know these bylaws, as Eileen was saying, they were sent out, and Nancy was saying as well; but usually when you, when you submit a bylaw or change, you always strike out the language, you know you usually redline it, and then you highlight in dark bold what the change is going to be.  Well, that never happened. This is obviously an attempt to completely revise the bylaws without, without due process. As you know the PNB Directors were about to vote “No” on them when they were first presented, but then our people were muted from casting their votes. So, so that’s, that’s part of it. And in the process of our LSB we made a motion to have forums, on-air forums; and I think what you’re doing here, Ron, what WPFW is doing, and WBAI is doing, is a great service to our listeners in order to educate what’s, what, you know the usurping attempt — and usurping is to disenfranchise people.  Come on, I mean, you get rid of the LSBs, you get rid of the democratic process of governance that we fought so hard for. You know, I was around when the original bylaws was stated, and as Ms. Brazon was saying, there was a bylaws convention, there was meetings where you could express your opinion. And, you know, with this, with this decision that the judge gave, it prevents us from being able to address, you know, these changes, which will be self-directing directors, self-electing directors where the listeners won’t have an opportunity to vote for, for LSB Members, because that would be completely gone; and then the directors, the PNB directors will be self-perpetrating.  So, you know, this is, this is a serious attempt to completely disenfranchise and make things easier to break up this network, and that really concerns me. Thank you. 

 

Ron P: And, and, Lawrence, before you go, when, when your, when the KPFK LSB was taking this vote, I mean, this, this wasn’t close?  I mean, this is, like you said, almost unanimous. 

 

Lawrence: Yeah, it was almost unanimous.  And I believe, you know, even some people that were on the fence saw, because of the presentation that was made by myself, Michael Novick, and Grace Aaron, they were able to be, you know, be educated in regards to what really are the effects of these, of this proposed bylaws that’s being presented to our membership.  And, you know, so one of the things I would like to say is, GM’s have to cooperate with both, both sides, and hold forums. The National Elections Supervisor must authorize having forums throughout the network to educate our people. And we have till March, so we have a short window. So, we need to do as much as we can to get the information out.  And I appreciate you, Ron, and ‘PFW, ‘BAI doing that today. 

 

Ron P: Okay, very good.  Lawrence Reyes, thank you very, very much for participating today. Thank you for your work, you know, at the LSB level, at the PNB level, at the Pacifica level.  Thank you very much, Lawrence.

 

Lawrence: Thank you. 

 

Ron P: All right.  You’re in tune to 89.3 FM, WPFW and 99.5 WBAI New York.  You know, our next segment we’ll be talking with, you know, community folks, okay.  Because this does affect the communities, you know, not only here but New York, and L.A., and Berkeley, and KPFT in Houston.  You know, there’s a lot of community interest in this process. And so, what we want to do now is invite some of our community members and staff members, because this also affects staff at all the stations, because there are two elections that will be taking place.  One, there’ll be a staff ballot, and there will be a listener ballot. That’ll be coming into the mail or by email, because some will be receiving their ballots electronically. So, you know, we have both constituencies there that that will be affected by these bylaws changes.

 

So, joining us in the studio for this second hour of our broadcast is Joni Eisenberg. Good morning, Joni.

 

Joni Eisenberg:  Good afternoon, Ron. 

 

Ron P: Oh, it is after noon, isn’t it?   I’d also like to welcome Craig Hall. 

 

Craig Hall: All right.  Good morning or good afternoon. 

 

Ron P: Craig Hall is one of our newer LSB Members.  Eileen Rosen’s still with us. And Verna Avery-Brown.  Verna, are you there? 

 

Verna A-B: Yes I am, Ron; and I’m sorry I can’t be in the studio, but I’m absolutely with you all.

 

Ron P: All right. Very good.  Very good. So, let’s talk about, let’s talk about staff response, you know, to this.  As a member of the WPFW programming staff, you, Joni, Craig — I’d like to hear from the three of you how, you know, why this is important to the staff.  And would you like to impart to the staff, because their, their ballots are equally important in this, you know, referendum. And lets start with you, Verna, since you’re on the phone there, okay? 

 

Verna A-B: Okay. All right.  I appreciate that, Ron, and good afternoon to all our listeners in the DMV as well as in the ‘BAI area, as well.  The point I want to make, Ron, is that this is really an urgent, hair-on-fire type of moment for Pacifica. Now if you see someone with their hair on fire, most likely you’re going to jump into action, you know, you’re going to grab a bucket of water or something and try to help that individual.  We need, we need you all to grab a ballot. Grab your ballot when the time comes, February 18th.   Now, programmers, this is particularly important to programmers across the network, because at KPFA one programmer has been yanked off the air without explanation or notice.  His name is Steve Zeltzer. He was “Work Week Radio” producer, a very popular programmer in the community. He was on the air for seven years. He represented labor, workplace issues, protection for whistleblowers, and thousands of unionized and unorganized workers need this sort of platform.  It’s rumored that his show was yanked off because it was “too edgy.” Too edgy? On Pacifica? Isn’t that what Pacifica is all about? Other shows that were removed and not replaced with any compelling new shows include shows like “Guns and Butter,” “Discreet Music,” “Counterspin” by beloved Laura Flanders, and you know there seems to be a rightward drift from those seeking to file bankruptcy and to break up the network — and they are some of the same people who are the architects of this, this lawsuit.  So this to me, Ron, is reminiscent of the battle we fought and won back in 1999 when the then PNB was drifting towards more conservative positions, and Dan Coughlin and I were appointed as Executive Director and Deputy Executive Director to reposition the network. But Pacifica, we have to remember, is a constant target, because of the progressive, radical, outside-the-mainstream programs, the voices we air. A host is able to say things on our airwaves that they would be absolutely yanked off the air for saying on another network.  I mean, who’s to say this group of six new directors wouldn’t find some of our programs too “edgy.” Well, they took ‘BAI off the air, so they will have the authority, as we heard, basically to operate unchecked — no oversight. Who’s going to check them? Who’s going to check them, Boo? Yeah, who’s going to check them? They will always have, always have the voting majority, if they choose to vote as a block on the board, because it will be six of them versus five of the station reps. And we’ll go, as we’ve heard this morning, from having a democratic governance to basically what I call an oligarchy.  And you look the definition of that up and that’s when power rests with a small number of people. So, you know, we have a labor show, “Arise,” with Bill Fletcher. What’s at stake… I mean, we have a whistleblower. Marsha Coleman-Adebayo is one of the most famous whistleblowers in the country. She stared down the Environment Protection Agency and won, and put legislation in place. 

 

[momentary touch tone interference]

 

Ron P: Okay.

 

Verna: Someone’s trying to interrupt.

 

Ron P: I guess; but it, it’s handled.  Okay, you want to finish your statement, and then I want to go to Craig.

 

Verna A-B: Okay, [unintelligible] I mean, the list goes on and on and on of the programmers on our airwaves that could be in some case considered too edgy.  So why do we want to put ourselves in a position where we’re at the mercy of these six people [unintelligible] don’t give a damn about how they feel.  [unintelligible] with the bylaws. And let’s not use a tactic where a scaffold is really required. I have more to say, but I’m going to yield. I’m going to yield. 

 

Ron P: Verna Avery Brown, thank you very much, and so she’s going to stay with us.  

 

Craig Hall, one of our new LSB Members.  Welcome.

 

Craig Hall: All right.  Thank you.

 

Nancy Sorden:  This is Nancy.  I just want to sign off.  I’ve gotta go.

 

Ron P: Okay, Nancy.  Thank you so much, Nancy.  Nancy Sorden, thank you very much.

 

Nancy:  And thank you all for being on.  Thank you so much.  

 

Ron P: All right. Okay, Nancy, thank you very much.  Craig, welcome to the airwaves, and what’s your perspective on this?

 

Craig Hall: Well, you know, I am what you call staff, although all of us here, programmers at WPFW are volunteers so were considered to be staff, but we’re not paid staff.  And I’m a Co-host of a public affairs program, “Voices with Vision” with Netfa Freeman, and speaking to Verna’s point about the possible, the increased possibility of censorship and undemocratic kind of authoritarian oversight is something that threatens a program like the one that I’m heavily involved with, “Voices with Vision,” because we are tied into the community, you know, the universities, the organizations, the organizations that are fighting for the liberation of our people; and so we know that these types of programming are not popular with the powers that be, and it just seemed obvious to me that, you know, when you’re doing dirt, you try to do dirt in the dark, and too much of this was in the dark, making it very suspect.  And, you know, often we see the justifications being connected to dirty deeds. Just because there’s a problem somewhere it doesn’t mean that what is being presented as a solution is a solution. It’s just an opportunity for opportunists to say, “Hey something is wrong!” and you know, “So, let’s do this.” Because we could always, you know, analyze and look at things and see where things need to be improved, but we have to be very careful. So, the idea that, as has already been explained by others on this program, that we would, we would initiate a situation that was, you know, so much less democratic, is a real big problem. Just like other people have said, how can just a handful of people represent? Is that going to serve us better?  And it is, I can see it clearly, it is a part of a move to sort of mainstream WPFW, to drive it toward the middle, to water it down, amongst other things. And of course, you know, and our, the tagline for our show is “not for the politically faint of heart,” so the idea of being watered down or mainstreamed, that just doesn’t work. 

 

Ron P: You know, I have to think of this logistically, too, because with these new proposed bylaws the station would get one representative.  And when you look at our program grid, it’s a quilt. It’s a quilt of consciousnesses is what I call it, okay? And one individual can’t represent all of the various interests that this station represents.  That’s why the boards are so important, that’s why representation, diverse representation, is so important — to make sure that as many voices as possible from the community, you know, are a part of this process.  All of us began as volunteers, you know. Many of us, we’re all still volunteers, you know. But we did that because it was that democratic openness that allowed, you know, people like ourselves to come in and participate like this.  And that door could be shut off, you know, to future, you know, opportunity for our community. Anything that you want to add, Craig, before we go to Joni?

 

Craig Hall: Well I’m sure I can jump in, so let’s go to Joni. 

 

Ron P: All right.  Next is Joni Eisenberg, long-time WPFW programmer and an activist here in this community, and she knows where all the bones are. Welcome to the airwaves, Joni.

 

Joni: Yes, the bones and the victories as well.  

 

Ron P: Exactly.

 

Joni: Thank you.  I’ve been on the air here for 28 years, but I grew up listening in New York City to, to WBAI, so I’m here on behalf of both stations, and I hope we jump back at some point to Mimi, as well.  You know, we need to make it plain that this is a plot, I’ll call it, to destroy Pacifica to disen… — we’re using the term disenfranchise, I think that’s a little bit too mild. You know, we who are a threat to the status quo know it’s no surprise that the status quo and the powers that be would want to destroy Pacifica Radio.  It wouldn’t be a surprise to most of us. We’ve been through this before, as Verna said. 1999, many of us remember when Verna Avery Brown, as well as Amy Goodman, were on the front lines across this nation. I would meet people all over the country who knew that Pacifica was being threatened. So we’re at this again. Verna coined the phrase S-O-S, Save Our Stations.  This is an emergency situation. We are here to educate you, and most of us on the airwaves are a threat to the status quo. We question the status quo. We question the man down the street, number 45. We question the racism of this system. We question the root that this country is based on for profits in health care, no matter how many peoples lives are lost by that.  We are a threat to the status quo. We’re here today to encourage all the listeners to stay woke to stay–

 

Ron P: All right. 

 

Joni E: Wait, I’m, I’m getting interruptions.  To stay woke, this is, you know, this is something that is, we don’t want to bore you with this discussion of bylaws, we want you to stay woke.  And I just wanted to read a phrase from WBAI’s LSB vote that they took, that they said that “the changes of the bylaws are so highly suspect, that they clearly raise questions about the good faith of those promoting them” with everything they have said to promote them.  Before I jump off I want to say we at WPFW are Jazz and Justice Radio. Jazz is also a threat to this society, so we are not leaving our music programmers in this station and across the network out. You know, jazz is becoming, is in danger; and we are very proud of the justice roots of jazz, so we’re not separating jazz and justice.  We’re here to protect both, and we’re here to encourage everyone on staff, programmers and listeners, to stay woke. This is a fight for the survival of our network. 

 

Ron P: All right.  Thank you very much, Joni.  And folks, let me reiterate these dates.  The ballots go out on the 18th of February.  Once those ballots go out there’ll be 30 days, for people, you know, for people to respond to those ballots.  Some of those ballots will be paper; some of them will be email. Those who made contributions between January 1, 2019 and January 1, 2020 will be eligible to participate.  So, you know, you’ll be seeing more information about that on our website at WPFW as well as at Pacifica websites so stay tuned to all of that.

 

In continuation of our broadcast, the community response is very, very important because the ‘PFW…

 

Verna A-B: Ron.

 

Ron P: Yes.  Go ahead.

 

Verna A-B: I’m sorry.  I just wanted to add one more thing

 

Ron P: Please go ahead.  Make it quick, ’cause I …

 

Verna A-B: You know, the programmers need to understand the power that they have in this situation.  As we know there’s going to be two elections, but if the programmers across the network vote no — a majority vote no – that shuts this whole thing down.  Or if the listeners across the network vote no that shuts it down. So in order for this proposal to go forward both elections have to be a yes vote. So programmers as defined by anybody who is a host or who assists a host or who has volunteered, and this also includes paid staff.  

 

Ron P: Yeah, paid and unpaid.

 

Verna A-B: So it’s called the staff, but it includes the programmers as well.  If they vote no, it’s over. It’s over. So that’s the power we have; so, you know, I thought initially the ballots was going out of the 14th I was going to say be a sweetheart and vote your conscience, you know; but they’re going out of that close about. 

 

Ron P: You still vote your conscience, by all means.

 

Joni: Right around Frederick Douglas’ birthday.

 

Ron P: All right, and listen.  Once again, the community is intricately involved in what we do here at WPFW and there’s no greater representative of this community than Reverend Graylan Hagler who joins us in studio this morning.  Welcome, Mister Hagler.

 

Rev. Hagler: Thank you.  It’s so good to be here.  

 

Ron P: Graylan, you have been associated with this station forever, okay.  A good thing. And, you know, you are connected to the community. Share with us your thoughts about losing, the idea or the thought of losing local control of WPFW and how it would impact the community that you serve so well. 

 

Rev. Hagler: Well, let me put a start out this way: that democracy is under attack in this country and on this network.  And we see that very often in this time and when folks want to limit the voices, limit the voices so that there is a dominant narrative that exists.  And so in order to have a dominant narrative you’ve got to deal with trying to eliminate all of those voices that challenge that dominant narrative. That’s what democracy is about.  Where people are able to engage. And one thing that’s been important when you tried talking about WPFW radio or WBAI or the Pacifica network, what you’ve got to really think of is, like, all of the things that we basically cover and talk about that will never happen on corporate media.  You know, I just think the other night we had a rally for the poor people’s campaign in Washington DC. Who set up live there was this station, WBAI, live broadcasting it. This has been the station that has been the official outlet of the poor peoples’ campaign, staying plugged in. Well, corporate media is not carrying that.  You can’t expect NBC, ABC — they could care less about that. CNN, MSNBC… 

 

Ron P: Excuse me one second, Reverend.  Somebody’s phone – one of our guests, please mute your phone or disembark because we’re getting a tone there that’s interfering with the broadcast, okay?  Continue, Reverend Hagler.

 

Rev Hagler: Yeah.  And so those kinds of things are out there and basically being presented to our community, because there is a whole issue where information is thwarted.  People work very hard to make sure that people aren’t informed, that people are not are able to engage in deliberate and conscious discussion and deliberation.  And that’s really what it’s about. So, the first thing that really tries to happen is that people who are really sort of fascist in nature try to get a hold of those vehicles that put out information that challenges the dominant culture.  I mean, one of the things that J. Edgar Hoover said, for example, was that somehow they needed to get control of this Negro press that kept reporting the things that the White press was not reporting. And so that was for them a real law enforcement agenda.  And basically we’ve seen the eradication of much of the Black press, and you see the continued attacks upon those types of journalistic freedoms that raises up the alternative view of the perspective. And so, WPFW of the Pacifica network has been a part of being that alternative voice.  And if we allow folks to bylaw change to close down that democratic process, we’re the ones that ought to be shot. 

 

Ron P:  Reverend Graylan Hagler putting it like it is!  You know, I’m going to ask you, Verna, is there a racial component to this?  And Grace, if you’re still there I’d like you to respond to that, too; because you had an interesting take on how race is playing a role in this referendum.

 

Grace A: Yes.  I think it absolutely is playing a role, because these bylaws would give only one representative from each signal area, so obviously in many of our signal areas where the membership is mainly White and the people who have the greatest name recognition are, to a great degree older White people — so who do you think is going to be representing our stations on the National Board?  Maybe we’ll have a token person of color here and there, but it probably, the board will probably be dominated by White folk. I hate to put it as bluntly as that, but that probably would be the outcome. With our local boards as they exist currently, we have representation from uh wide variety perspectives, ethnicities, nationalities, viewpoints — and we need to maintain that. That’s what Pacifica is all about.  

 

And Pacific is a beacon of hope in this Trump time, when so much of our population is craving dictatorship, strong men, a Leader, you know?  We need to go back to the importance of democracy and our Constitution. And that’s what Pacific is all about. And media is being decimated across the country.  Newspapers are going bankrupt. Just a couple of weeks ago, iHeartRadio, which owns 850 radio stations, had massive layoffs — termed by some of the people laid off as a bloodbath.  So we’re looking at a bloodbath in media, especially community media. Community media is being decimated. I know here in L.A. we have hardly any local news. You turn on the local news on TV and its mainly car chases, and weather, and maybe some entertainment news.  And there’s just a degeneration: a lack of community voices, a lack of community news across the country. And Pacifica has been hit, viciously, with financial and other threats. The shutdown of WBAI, which was extremely expensive, both in loss of revenue — because the station was shut down in the beginning of a fund drive, a major fund drive — also legal costs to combat the shutdown and get the station back on the air, and now this bylaws amendment process is going to cost us probably about $100,000.  And this is at a time when Pacifica is needed so much in this 2020 election cycle. And we’re being distracted by some things that are counter-productive, in my estimation. So that’s where we’re at. Pacifica is the hope, right now, to… of democracy in the media. We’re unique. We’re democratic. We need to maintain the voice of democracy in the media spectrum.

 

Ron P:  All right.  Thank you very much.  That’s Grace Aaron. Folks, we’re going to take a quick break.  You’ve been tuned to 89.3 FM WPFW, and streaming at wpfw.org and also at WBAI, New York.  We will be back momentarily to continue, and then we’re going to open our phone lines for you folks that may have a question, a comment.  And so don’t go anywhere. We’ll be right back. 

 

[Music:] 

Daylight

I wake up feeling like you won’t play right

I used to know, but now that —- don’t feel right

It made me put away my pride

So long

You made a  n—- wait for some, so long

You make it hard for boy like that to go on

I’m wishing I could make this mine, oh

If you want it, yeah

You can have it, oh, oh, oh

If you need it, ooh

We can make it, oh

If you want it

You can have it

But stay woke

Baby creepin’

They gon’ find you

Gon’ catch you sleepin’ (oh)

Now stay woke

Baby creepin’

Don’t you close your eyes

 

Too late

You wanna make it right, but now it’s too late

My peanut butter chocolate cake with Kool-Aid

I’m trying not to waste my time

 

If you want it, oh

You can have it, you can have it

If you need it

You better believe in something

We can make it, aaaaah!

If you want it

You can have it, aaaaah!

 

But stay woke

Baby creepin’

They gon’ find you

Gon’ catch you sleepin’

 

But stay woke

Baby creepin’

Don’t you close your eyes

 

But stay woke

Baby creepin’

They gon’ find you

Gon’ catch you sleepin’

 

But stay woke

Baby creepin’

Don’t you close your eyes

 

“Rebone” by Childish Gambino [radio edit]

Lyrics copyright: legal lyrics licensed by MusiXmatch.

No unauthorized reproduction.

Writers: Donald McKinley Glover II, George Clinton, William Earl Collins, Ludwig Emil Tomas Goransson

 

Ron P: All right.  Welcome back to this special LSB Program here on WPFW, being simulcast at WBAI. 

 

Craig: We just heard Childish Gambino – “Redbone.”  But the message there was just stay woke. 

 

Ron P: There you go, Craig.  Thank you very much. Thank you very much.  And that’s the appropriate title for the day.

 

Craig Hall: That’s Right.

 

Ron P: Stay woke.  Don’t be snoozing ’cause you’d be losing.  All right. So listen, we’re going to open the phone lines up, you know, for you folks to make comments, to share your thoughts about the issues we’ve been discussing this morning.   And the number to call is our traditional on-air line: 202-588-0893. In the studio is Reverend Graylan Hagler, Joni Eisenberg of “Heal DC,” Craig Hall, programmer here with WPFW, Eileen Rosen, member of our WPFW LSB and PNB, and yours truly, Ron Pinchback, hosting the event.  Mike, do we have a phone guest? Okay. Once again folks, you know, if you have a question or comment about these proceedings or about any of this, please share your thoughts. We’ll answer as succinctly as we can. And, well, try to make your questions as brief as you can so that we can get as many of you folks in as possible.  Thank you very much for listening to WPFW.

 

Good morning. You’re on.

 

Caller: Next?

 

Ron P: Yes.  Good morning.

 

Zabby: Thank you so very much for this show, very thoughtful show.   I was very luckily tuned in, of course, to WBAI, and my name is Zabby, Z-A-B-B-Y.   I do a radio show at Stony Brook University and I’ve been trying to save WBAI all of these years.  I play some of the excerpts from WBAI, from actually Washington DC Code Pink. I use program segments on my show to try to advertise it, so I am one of those older White people who is not a racist because, and I really resent Gracie Aaron for playing the race card; and, well, I don’t know who introduced, wanted to introduce the topic. 

 

Ron P:  Actually, actually, I introduced the topic.

 

Zabby: I thought that beneath the pale.  No, you did. I heard that, but I don’t know… I think that playing the race card is beneath the pale, because I believe one for all and all for one, and I love the man from California who said “family.”  That’s how I look at it, our family here.

 

Ron P:  We wish everybody though that way.

 

Zabby: To generalize about all the White people at Pacifica is, I think, a mistake.  And it divides, it divides, and it’s not good. But anyway, I have a website that I’ve been doing for 6 years or so, following so many of the shows.  It’s like I’m, I’m an accountant, actually, and so I come from an accounting perspective. My website, which I’d like you to go to, has solutions for Pacifica Foundation, for all 5 stations.  At first it was just geared for WBAI, because that’s the station I was tuned into, 

 

Ron P:  Okay.

 

Zabby: and I couldn’t really speak to all the others because I couldn’t get those, I don’t even have a computer. 

Ron P: Okay.  Listen, I hate to do this my sister, but we’re going to have to move on to the next call, okay?  And thank you very much for making your comments, and they were very well received. 202-588-0893, Good morning, you’re on.  Good afternoon, rather. You’re on WPFW. 

 

Mitchel Cohen: Hey, good afternoon.  This is Mitchel Cohen here in New York, WBAI.

 

Ron P: Hey, Mitchel.  How are you doing?

 

Mitchel Cohen: I’m a member of the WBAI Local Station Board, and first thing: vote no!  Just ask everybody to vote down this revocation of our network, which is what it’s trying to do.  But I also wanted to note that the judge, unbeknownst to most of us, who ruled on these things – he used to be at KPFA as a staffer, and he was with the paid staff — I don’t know if he was paid there – he was on the staff at KPFA that was hostile to any kind of listener input or control of the radio stations in the network.  And so then we think of all the things that Pacifica has done and ‘BAI, KP-, WPFW especially. I’m glad we’re working together on this. Such as genetic engineering, opposition to genetic engineering. While many of the Democratic Party people, the officials are for genetic engineering, yet we’ve been opposing it. So we are opposed to Mumia’s incarceration and Leonard Peltier’s incarceration, yet many of those people, the same people, are for it; so it’s, we serve a really important function as a radio station, and we don’t realize that until we lose it.  And it’s really important. And I just want to thank you so much for airing this show on ‘BAI and ‘PFW .

 

Ron P: All right, Mitchel.  Thank you so much for your comment.  202-588-0893. Good morning, excuse me, good afternoon.  You’re on WPFW. 

 

Steve Zeltzer: Yeah, this is Steve Zeltzer. I’m calling from San Francisco.

 

Ron P:  Hey, Steve.

 

Steve Zeltzer: And I had a show on KPFA which was removed this month on the 13th, called “Work Week Radio.”  And it was the only Northern California labor show, regular weekly labor show.  So, the day before the show was scheduled, on Tuesday, I received an email from Quincy McCoy, who is the manager, saying the show was cancelled and the station was going in a new direction.  Now, there is no other labor show on KPFA, regular labor show, and I was never consulted, never. There was never discussion, no comment. So it was a unilateral, corporate-type decision. And I think that’s really what’s behind these bylaw things — to corporatize Pacifica and KPFA.  And I think that we at KPFA have faced these attacks on programmers; there’s been no meetings with the staff. There’s supposed to be one tonight, but there hasn’t been one for years with the staff. Now, I feel that the management should have meetings with the staff at least once a month, once every other month, and report what’s going on.  And this top-down corporate structure is terrible. Now, at the same time, we at “Work Week” and other programmers have been trying to have more live national programming. And KPFA should be part of this discussion. There should be a live national call-in with discussion, debate. There’s so many struggles, issues, labor, racism, immigration that can have a national focus, so we’ve also fought for Pacifica to have a channel where you could have live national programming of rallies, marches for women or climate — where we could as a national network really reach out and connect with these different struggles that are going on using new technology, communication technology.  So I think that this is an effort to really shut down, corporatize the network, and it was the view of the people who are running KPFA on the board and in management is they should cut loose WBAI. KPFA should operate on its own and they should sell off the station in New York to fund this project or this financial crisis. Now there are only $4,000,000 that are owed, which is actually a very small amount nationally, considering the potential for Pacifica as an important alternative network, as the only alternative network.

 

Ron P:  All right.

 

Steve Zeltzer: The other thing that just happened, which is important… 

 

Ron P: Hey, my man, I hate to do this to you, but we’re really running short of time and I’m going to have to interrupt you so that we can get some more callers in and some more comments from our panelists.  Thank you for sharing your story. Thanks for calling from out there in California. That’s an important constituency to us, so keep us posted and good luck, okay? Okay. And we also, we’re going to be bringing back Mimi Rosenberg and Arthur Schwartz for some final thoughts.  Before we do that, I’d like to get some response from Reverend Hagler on what some of the callers, anything the callers may have said. 

 

Rev Hagler: Sure.  I think that they’re hitting it on the head. Because, again, you know, it’s like how do you, how do you begin to quell the voices that challenge the dominant narrative out there?  You know, because very often we get sort of thinking that well, it’s right and it’s left. Well, there’s right-right-right-right, left-left-left-left, right? I mean, what I’m what I’m getting at is that there is a vast array of perspective, but basically when you create a dualism within the culture you’re controlling every other perspective that’s out there.  And so, what happens is that WPFW becomes a clearinghouse for thought, becomes a clearinghouse for progressive thinking, becomes a clearinghouse for those kinds of movements that the dominant culture don’t want us to see, don’t want us to hear about, don’t even want us to know exists. And so, what is important is that we have vehicles like this that can really begin to penetrate the energies of the community and help those guide that energy to emerge as something that is a viable alternative to the dominant themes that are being offered.  As the dominant themes, as I must point out, are always filled with racism, classism; always filled with all of this, it’s pro-capitalist, it has no other type of alternative economic viewpoint. Those are the narratives we’re being fed, and if we don’t think that there’s other narratives out there, we buy into those narratives. 

 

Ron P: No witnesses, right?

 

Rev Hagler: That’s right.

  

Ron P: Craig?

 

Craig Hall:  Well, I think, I think Reverend Hagler said what I was going to say.  So, but, you know, this idea that, you know, when you speak about what WPFW means then you understand why we have to vote no and why the enemy of the people want to get their hands on WPFW.  Any time there is a coup, this United States government engineers a coup somewhere to install a dictator, one of the first things they do is attack the radio station and the TV station and the media to control the narrative, to control information.  And so these bylaws in effect create the kind of situation that the police in this country, by whatever agencies, can put them in a better position to control what goes on at Pacific. And so it’s anti- democratic and that will be the effect. And we know this is what they do.  You know, they have six-figure incomes and sit around in rooms, you know, they come from Ivy League schools and they have plenty of time to pick on WPFW. It’s a priority. 

Ron P: Joni?

Joni: Yes, and of course I want to remind people that it was none other than Adolf Hitler who one of the things that he did was make sure he controlled the media.  So we should, again, stay woke and know that in these days that’s going to be a priority of the one percent that’s trying to control us. We have to be standing up, we have to be standing up together, and I’m very proud that we in Pacifica are standing together, with all the LSBs questioning this.  And again, I just wanted to make a brief comment about racism. This country was founded on racism, so of course the bylaws proposal includes — there’s a racist element to it. And to say it’s racist does not mean that we’re dividing ourselves up. We as progressive people must stand together, and that includes standing up against racism and standing up against all the horrific things that are going on in this country now.  Now it’s more important that ever that we have a strong Pacifica. And we know that the listeners and the staff will stand together with us. 

Ron P: All right.  Very Good. All right, let’s go back to the phones right quick, and then we’re going to bring back Arthur Schwartz and Mimi Rosenberg for some some closing remarks and  challenges related to this whole adventure, ’cause it is an adventure, folks. And thank you all for listening. Good afternoon, you’re on WPFW

Mario: Hi, how are you?

Ron P:  Yes, well.  What is your comment? 

Mario: All right.  My name’s Mario.  Real quick. I’m a member of the Community Advisory Board in New York and the Finance Committee, and at one time I wanted to challenge some of the ways that things were happening at WBAI; but, with this takeover that happened, I agree with everybody who’s been on the show today.  Everyone. Everything they said, how they explained it. It’s not good to go to the other extreme. I’d rather things be worked out here. ‘BAI, when things get really pretty bad, they usually straighten out their problems. And I don’t like… they showed their colors the way that they were handling programming.  The way that they handle the programming, they should… it was not good. It tells me that there’s going to be very little of the same programming, if any, and that wasn’t a good thing. That’s very telling. So, I agree and support the people that are on today about defending and working with this. We have to work out the money problems throughout the network, but to go to another extreme and do this corporate thing, and only a group of elites or chosen people in one California do things… no, that’s not good.

Ron P: All right.  Thank you so much for taking the time to call in and share.  All right. Caller, you’re on the air. Good afternoon. 

Max: Yes.  Thank you for giving me this opportunity to speak.  My name is Max. I’m calling from Manhattan. I think it’s great.  This is voice, giving people a chance to voice their opinion now on the air, but I’d like to know that, regardless of where you happen to take the radio station, which direction, that we will be granted open access to discuss the nefarious doings dealings of vaccines.  Kameos discussed GMOs and their effect on the human body. How can you promise us this? 

Ron P: Yes, absolutely.  That’s going to protect access to that type of information.  Because, look, the information you’re asking about, you know, is not necessarily, you know, popular, you know; because it won’t bring in revenue for the, you know, for the Corporation.  So, a lot of things that we deal with, our prison show for example, you know, we don’t… Corporate interests aren’t interested in talking to prisoners. So, that’s why it’s so important that we understand what’s at stake here.  

And, we’re at the conclusion of this special.  You will be hearing more about this in the weeks to come.  There will be additional forums and such, on-air forums. And before I go, I’d like to hear from Mimi Rosenberg and Arthur Schwartz.  Mimi?

Mimi R:  Well, I want to come in by saying, first of all, thank you for the courage, the conviction, which is the best of what our stations have to offer for doing this kind of programming and letting people have their say.  And by having their say, they become empowered and determine what our stations look like. You, you the listener are the broadcasters. You finance our stations. And guess what? If you don’t vote no, if you don’t stop the hijacking of Pacifica through the efforts to change these bylaws wholesale, you, the listener are being fired.  You, the staff, are being fired. And we have to say, “Hell no!” This is about self-determination. It is about inclusion and representation. That’s what democracy looks like. 

Ron P: There you go, Mimi.  Thank you very much. And, Arthur Schwartz, thank you for being here today for this.  Just a couple of words, you know, infinitum there.

Arthur Schwartz: Just what I said at the top of the show.  Pacifica is a uniquely-structured democratic organization.  We are… The content and the leadership in the direction of the foundation is democratically elected, literally from station to national.  And these bylaws would basically eviscerate that unique structure among left or any, or even not-left foundations in this country, and would create, would basically take Pacifica into the realm of your standard foundation with self- perpetuating boards.  People should keep that in mind. 

Ron P: Okay.  Thank you very much, Arthur.  Very much. And Eileen, before we go?

Eileen: Yeah.  I just wanted to mention as always, you know, we’re always talking about our fund drives and asking you for money, and I’m not doing that right this second, exactly.  We do have one coming up here at ‘PFW. I’m not sure when ‘BAI’s is or the other stations might have them; but I wanted to mention it just because, you know, part of our problem is that we get all tangled up in these things and we need money to deal with lawsuits or to, you know, have these elections go forward so that we could actually get things done.  That we need to pay for our auditors who will then let us have audits that we could use to actually, then, raise money from foundations and the CPB. So I just wanted to put in a word, there, that while it’s horribly boring and annoying for us to be talking about money, that’s what we use it for. We need to move ahead and we need to be able to have that foundation of funds.

Ron P: All Right.  Thank you very much, Eileen.  And Reverend Hagler, I’m going to give you the last word because you represent this community and that’s what this station and ‘BAI are all about — representing community.

Rev Hagler:  I’m going to engage you, I’m going to engage everybody around here in my last comments.  How should people vote?

All: ”No!” 

Rev Hagler: There you go.  That’s my last comment.

Ron P: Thank you, Reverend Hagler.  All right. Listen, everybody, all you listeners out there, thank you so much.  Stay abreast of this issue because we will be providing you with updates and, you know, over the next few weeks you’ll be hearing a lot about this.  Research, you know, make up your own mind, vote your conscience, you know. If self-determination is important to you, if local control is important to you, if democracy is important to you, yeah, you know how you want to vote.  Okay. To ‘BAI listeners, thank you so much. You’ve been through a lot up there, and, you know, I applaud you for standing tall. And, once again…

Joni: Stay woke!

Ron P: As Joni says, stay woke everybody, stay woke and keep that faith in Pacifica.  Keep the faith in WPFW, ‘BAI and all our sister stations. Okay, we need your help and thank you so much because we know we’re going to get it.  This is Ron Pinchback. Have a wonderful weekend.

 

Lucy Murphy [Singing]: 

Somebody’s hurtin’ Pacifica 

And it’s gone on far too long

Yes it’s gone on far too long

Yes it’s gone on far too long.

 

Somebody’s hurtin’ Pacifica 

And it’s gone on far too long

And we won’t be silent any more 

No we won’t be silent any more

No we won’t be silent any more.

No we won’t be silent any more.